This is the Premiere Episode of Firefly but technically not the Pilot since the Pilot hasn't aired yet. You can find a character guide for the show here.
Lets examine some Firefly premises stated in the first few minutes:
Earth was all used up: No, that doesn't seem plausible. Earth won't run out of natural resources. Energy is the key resource. In the long term technological advances will make energy from nuclear fission, nuclear fusion, wind, photovoltaics and other sources. With energy fertilizer, building materials, and other resources can be made. So the Earth isn't going to become unlivable due to a depletion of natural resources.
Getting by with only the most basic technologies on the outer systems: Okay, first of all, there are spaceships flying around the galaxy. Trade is possible. Trade is happening. A civilization with enough technology to terraform and settle many planets ought to find it easy to build high tech societies. Information storage technologies are so cheap and small and destined to become much more so that a remote settlement will be able to have technological reference data banks that would have explanations for how to build all sorts of different technologies.
Hundreds of planets were terraformed: Incredible. In one star system? That would seem implausible. Where would the mass and the needed distribution of types of matter (gas giants wouldn't have enough heavier elements in their outer layers) come from? Plus, no planet would be all that remote from the core of the Alliance. So then in hundreds of star systems? Also, such a level of technological ability is unlikely to be achieved without the ability to, say, easily build large cities.
Gradually hint some other fate for Earth. Earth used up? Maybe in a war that wrecked the place and left it contaminated with deadly bioweapons.
Come up with some plausible reasons why the outer systems are so backward. Maybe the Alliance prevents them from getting tech and capital because they are full of disloyal people. That way there is the added benefit that the Firefly crew can smuggle tech into these planets.
A somewhat backward world still manages to have floating maglev trains. Also, the floating maglev trains look primitive inside. These seem like implausible combinations. Of course, the advantage of the levitating high speed train is that it makes for a more exciting interception for the Firefly.
Mining makes people get sick on the backward world. What, no automated robots to do the mining? Also, why couldn't the terraformers make a world that doesn't create human health problems? And why would drugs be so rare that they'd be worth stealing?
People grow old. We are 500 years in the future and there are old people. Why? Genetic engineering will make aging fully reversible in 50 years max. So why in the 26th century will there be old people walking around?
Also, where are the genetically engineered people? Or how about some genetically engineered pets?
Genetically engineered people. Have all sorts of weird people who have special genetically engineered talents and abilities. Such people could have quirky personalities. They could also enjoy things that normal humans don't enjoy. Their preferences for color schemes in their cabins or homes could be bizarre because they were genetically engineered to enjoy, say, purple worlds that have pink skies and yellow seas. Their clothes and wall art could reflect that.
Illegal hand held devices with big databases of useful tech knowledge. These devices could be smuggled as contraband to the remote planets.
Have the Serenity crew pay visits to illicit tech manufacturing facilities on worlds that are opposed to Alliance rule and that were part of the rebellion against the Alliance. The manufactured goods could be goods that the Alliance does not want the disloyal worlds to have.
Use tech, especially genetic tech, to make some of the crew members more interesting. For instance, make Zoe have much greater physical strength because she's been genetically engineered (perhaps illegally).
Inara should continue to be extremely self confident and self actualized. No matter what her past has been she should not doubt herself. She can question her choices. But she should know and accept who she is and find herself and her choices to be morally acceptable. Also, she should demonstrate extensive knowledge of history, literature, art, and even science. A useful parallel here is with the Japanese Geishas that are highly educated. Her education should be shown to be useful for advising on strategy and in human relations.
When Mal and Zoe were being held for questioning Inara's ability to waltz in and label Mal her manservant and waltz back out with them demonstrated what I hope becomes a pattern with her: Superior skills in dealing with other people. Its enjoyable to watch someone display such skills, especially to accomplish an outcome that the audience wants to see happen. To make such scenes even more fun its great if its done in a way that shows up others who failed while using less consideration of the feelings of others.
Mal is a likeable guy. He comes across as a friendly slightly rogueish leader whose choices are strictly constrained by his sense of honor and a personal moral code. I think the writers should continue to show him making sacrifices for that moral code and should show him recognzing and responding to those who also live by admireable moral codes. In an interview Joss Whedon claimed that the characters are just crooks:
Whedon: Yes, they're crooks. They definitely are criminals. But they're not the Mafia. They're not killers. There're people out there doing much worse things than they are, but when you're out on the frontier, the law is not the first thing on your mind. Your next meal and fuel to get to the next planet is the first thing on your mind.
Does he really mean that? In the first aired epiode (there's another one coming in December that takes place before the premiere episode - go figure) Mal decided to return the stolen drugs once he found out what he was stealing. But up to that point he was willing to steal if it what was being stolen was from the Alliance government and if no regular people would be hurt by it. I think this creates a problem for the show's development. How can criminals be likeable? Or, even more to the point, why should they be portrayed as likeable? How or why should we admire them or enjoy their escapades?
In Whedon's interview he talks about wanting to give a texture to the show that makes you feel like you are there and that it is real and gritty and mundane. There were scenes in the first episode that worked in that regard. I liked the way the Serenity came up behind 3 of the characters just before they were going to either be shot or forced off a cliff. There was dirt. It felt fairly real.
One shot on the ship that does not seem real: the doctor and his sister were in a room in the Firefly and the ceiling looked like it had metal strips in a grid with a false ceiling of that foamy stuff in rectangles. Sorry, spaceships are not going to have a ceiling that looks like its used for office building cubicle space. Seeing that scene I was thinking they were down on a planet in a regular building. It took a while to clue in to the idea that they were on the Firefly.
Also, the lowering of Jayne into the travelling train seemed too unnatural. I would expect a drop of a human directly into the opening in the ceiling. Putting him on the roof of high speed train with nothing to hold onto seems like it wouldn't work in real life. The train seemed to be going over 100 mph. So why do it that way?
Here's my biggest concern with this show: I think it is fine to be inspired by Western movies and TV shows and real accounts of what life was like in the Wild West. But while frontiers in outer space will have some parallels with the American frontier development there are bound to be differences because people will go out to the space frontiers with more knowledge and more tech.
This show takes place 500 years in the future. I don't mind if Whedon wants to pretend (or maybe he doesn't know?) that humans 500 years from now will be like humans today. Lets pretend by then that they won't have all become genetically engineered 500 IQ geniuses who are in interfaces with massive computers. Really, I can pretend if the show is fun. But Western culture has changed quite a bit in the last 500 years. It will change a lot more in the next 500 years as well (assuming robots haven't wiped us out). A show set in the future ought to try to find ways to make it seem like the future. There ought to be norms and cultural practices that will spring up that will be quite different than society today or society in the Wild Wild West. I think the show could do a lot with subcultures on different planets that have arisen in response to the way tech changes how we think and live.
Posted by Randall Parker at September 21, 2002 11:40 PMYou're a fucking blind idiot. This is art and if you'd pull your head of your ass you'd realize... or maybe you wouldn't. Can't see past your own limited expectations.
Posted by: terry on January 11, 2003 08:30 AM> Lets examine some Firefly premises stated in the first few minutes:
If Fox had shown the 2 hour pilot first as they should have done, the premise would have been set up better. Kind of hard to explain the whole idea of a new show in a few seconds of voice-over.
> Earth was all used up: No, that doesn't seem plausible.
Who said "used up" means it ran out natural resources? Maybe there just isn't any more space. Maybe people that had been living nearby off-world started seeing less of a possibility of moving inwards (back to Earth) as terra-forming technology and space travel advanced or got cheaper.
Does it really matter? The premise is that mankind has moved outward into a new, untamed frontier.
> Getting by with only the most basic technologies on the outer systems: Okay, first of > all, there are spaceships flying around the galaxy.
So? There are cars driving through the poorest populations around the world, too. The idea is that not everyone has money and not everyone wants to bend to Alliance rules. As the pilot explained, many planets were terra-formed and people just basically dumped on them (possibly "undesirables" left over from the resistance). Perhaps the terra-forming is cheap but colonization is not. The main idea here is not unlike when people starting moving out west in North America. In other words, land was cheap but taming it was not easy. Many people moved out west with a dream but died of hardship.
Or maybe the Alliance had terra-formed these planets with big colonization plans. Then the resistance war started, draining their budget. After the war was over, they had a lot of outer worlds terra-formed but not the money or people to move out there. They did have plenty of "undesirables" with no where to go so they started shipping them out with the most basic of supplies to fend for themselves.
Or maybe the Alliance found out that it's terra-forming process wasn't as perfect as they thought it would be (see episode 1). Again, a perfect dumping ground for "undesirables".
>Hundreds of planets were terraformed: Incredible. In one star system? That would seem > implausible.
Really? How can you say what a non-existant technology would actually be like? Besides, it is fiction. Something that hasn't even been invented can work however the author wants it to work. And just because the might have the technology to build advanced cities doesn't mean they can afford to. Or as above, maybe they don't even want to. Apparently, you didn't notice that the high tech worlds in Firefly are Alliance-friendly while the low tech ones are not so much so.
> Some ways to fix the premises
> Gradually hint some other fate for Earth. Earth used up? Maybe in a war that wrecked
Who cares about the fate of Earth in the Firefly universe? It's not what the show is about.
> Come up with some plausible reasons why the outer systems are so backward.
They already did, if you watched the show. Or read above. Why does it bother you so much?
Look at our real world. We have some of the most "backward" neighborhoods in our most advanced cities. Hard to believe we can have people living on doorsteps and starving to death with a McDonald's 2 blocks away, but unfortunately it does happen. Yes, we can all dream of the "Star Trek" universe where mankind has evolved into a "higher being" where poverty and greed are things of the past but unfortunately, it's a good possibility that these things will still exist (if not more so) in the future. Science fiction writers of a hundred years ago thought we would be living in Utopia now, afterall.
> Other Implausibilities
> A somewhat backward world still manages to have floating maglev trains. Also, the floating > > maglev trains look primitive inside. These seem like implausible combinations. Of course, the > advantage of the levitating high speed train is that it makes for a more exciting interception for > the Firefly.
What is so implausible about that? Like you said, technology would be more advanced (mag lev trains). Obviously, this was a more advanced world than some but not everyone living on it has money. Or maybe it was started as an Alliance colony but when they realized the terra-forming was imperfect (due to the disease) they abandoned any future improvements and moved on. Maybe the mag lev train was 90% done but they hadn't outfitted the interior yet when this happened. And the private owner they sold it to didn't see the expense as worth it or couldn't afford it. Or maybe it was built on the cheap to begin with!
Have you ever looked at the interior of a Metro bus or train? For all the advances they have made since the invention of the locomotive or the automobile, most Metro interiors are very primitive. You're lucky if you get one with a padded seat rather than a hard, molded bench.
> Mining makes people get sick on the backward world. What, no automated robots to do the > mining?
Nope, too poor. Maybe the miners that started it were starting from scratch. Or maybe the big coporate miners have moved on and these are poor folk trying to make a few dimes on the remainder.
We've got automated robots right now so why do we have miners risking their lives? Technologically speaking, there is no reason why those 7 miners that were recently trapped should have even been down there. But the truth is, they are just hard working folk trying to make a decent living and robots are way too expensive.
> Also, why couldn't the terraformers make a world that doesn't create human health problems?
See above. Maybe they thought they could but unexpected problems always seem to pop up with new technology.
Plus, it's call conflict. Imagine a story where nothing ever goes wrong. Boring.
> And why would drugs be so rare that they'd be worth stealing?
What world do you live on right now? There are plenty of drugs in the real world that are so expensive that people steal them. Why is this so implausible in the future?
> People grow old. We are 500 years in the future and there are old people. Why?
Why do people die of sicknesses now that were "cured" 50 years ago? Because things are not free. Apparently, things are still not free in the Firefly future, either. Again, I don't see what is so implausible about that. In fact, it's more likely than a Utopia future that you are talking about.
People age in the other popular sci-fi cultures, too.
> Also, where are the genetically engineered people?
Who is to say there aren't any? Both the Doc and River seem have something going in the brains department. River also exhibited some beyond-human fighting skills, too. Actually, I find River's character the least interesting of the bunch.
But again, that's not necessarily what Firefly is about. I really like the fact that their are no aliens for a change and most of the crew do not have some super-human ability.
I'm not knocking Star Trek, I happen to like it, but look at the crew of The Next Generation. You have Data (one of a kind android), Worf (only Klingon in the Federation), Troi (mind-reader), Geordi (super-vision). It works for that show fine, but not every show should try to do that. We have plenty of Trek and the like already. Let Firefly be different.
> More ideas to make Firefly more interesting and plausible
> Genetically engineered people. Have all sorts of weird people who have special genetically
How would that be more plausible? You keep wanting to stress science as your basis for plausibility yet engineered people with super powers is a much bigger stretch than the idea of a under-decorated mag lev train, don't you think?
> Illegal hand held devices with big databases of useful tech knowledge.
I doubt these would do a lot of good for folks on the outerworld. Plus, it's clear from the show that outerworld folk barely have the money for high tech FOOD, let alone illegal computers.
> Have the Serenity crew pay visits to illicit tech manufacturing facilities
They sort of did that already (Jaynestown) though I don't see how that really makes the show more "plausible".
> Use tech, especially genetic tech, to make some of the crew members more
> interesting.
Again, how would "genetic tech" be more plausible? It wouldn't.
As far as making the characters more "interesting", gadgets and superpowers don't do that. Acting and writing / dialogue do that. Zoe is already a great character exactly as she is. She has even started developing (see plot elements between her, Wash, and Mal) into an even more interesting one. Giving her "bio-implants" or other such nonsense would not improve her at all.
As for making Zoe more powerful, she can already kick major butt!
> Character Interplay and Development
> Inara should continue to be extremely self confident and self actualized.
They already did pretty much all of those things in the short time the show aired. Again, Fox made a major mistake not airing the pilot first. What idiot would skip the first 2 chapters of a good book?
> Mal is a likeable guy. He comes across as a friendly slightly rogueish leader whose choices
Agreed, and again, they showed all of these things from the beginning with the pilot.
> Whedon: Yes, they're crooks. They definitely are criminals. But they're not the Mafia.
> I think this creates a problem for the show's development. How can criminals be likeable?
Come on, there have been tons of movies and TV shows with "likeable" crooks. Han Solo in Star Wars (smuggler), Clint Eastwood in several westerns (thief, hired gun), Cary Grant in To Catch a Thief (thief), George Clooney in Oceans Eleven (thief), Leon in The Professional (hitman), Tony Soprano in The Sopranos (mob boss), etc. The list of likeable crooks in film is huge.
Criminals in real life are bad. Criminals in fiction are -- fiction.
> Or, even more to the point, why should they be portrayed as likeable?
They should be protrayed as "likeable" because then people will care about them enough to watch the show. And guess what? I don't admire everything that these characters have done. Much like real people, these characters are flawed. They don't always make the right choice or do the right thing. How they deal with that is another part of why they are interesting to watch.
> The Texture Of The Show
> Sorry, spaceships are not going to have a ceiling that looks like its used for office building
How do you know what the ceilings of spaceships will look like? And maybe they did get that from the ceiling of an office building. In the episode Out of Gas, it seemed apparent to me that the Serenity was in very rough shape when Mal bought her and no doubt they have had to improvise to make some of it liveable.
> Also, the lowering of Jayne into the travelling train seemed too unnatural.
Seemed okay to me. I wouldn't want to do it but then Jayne seems big and crazy enough to try something like that. Who knows how fast it was going at that point, anyways? Better yet, who cares?
> Here's my biggest concern with this show: I think it is fine to be inspired by Western movies
>and TV shows and real accounts of what life was like in the Wild West. But while frontiers in > outer space will have some parallels with the American frontier development there are bound > to be differences because people will go out to the space frontiers with more knowledge and > more tech.
You've got to be kidding. When people moved out west in the "wild west", how many of them new how to even operate a train or telegraph, let alone build one? How much do people even really know about technology right now?
And people in the Firefly frontier do know about technolgy. How many ran away in fear when Serenity landed? None, because they do know of spaceships and other advanced technology. That doesn't mean they have the money to buy all of it or the factories or know-how to build it.
> This show takes place 500 years in the future. I don't mind if Whedon wants to pretend (or
>maybe he doesn't know?) that humans 500 years from now will be like humans today. Lets
>pretend by then that they won't have all become genetically engineered 500 IQ geniuses who > are in interfaces with massive computers. Really, I can pretend if the show is fun.
Who know what mankind will be like in 500 years? But I believe they will be more like us than not like us. Look around, we have not changed that much in the last 500 years. We still have poverity, greed, war, disease, hate, love, joy, etc. Writings from far before then are still applicable today (for example, the Bible) so we can't have changed that much.
Again, maybe the future does hold Utopia or something unheard of. Then again, maybe it will be something like Firefly. I think your ideas of what is plausible (genetic super-beings and advanced space colonies) is less likely than what Whedon has suggested (a tough frontier with human characters). But more importantly, I find his idea of the future a lot more interesting to watch!
Well Randall, it seems this fella Mark explained everything you had a problem with. But there's one thing he left out: you're a geek. Why the f*ck would you watch a show and analyze it for technical accuracy? Did you pay attention to the relationship between the crew, or the way the charactors grow and develop over time? Obviously not. You merely pointed out why the show wasn't Star Trek. Well, it's not Star Trek. That show is for geeks, which is why you have a giant poster of Captian Kirt in you bedroom. You have the arrogance to *correct* Whedon? "That's not what the future will be like!" Why? Because it's not what YOU think it will be like? Or because it's not like it is onboard the Enterprize? In the seventies, everyone was convinced we'd have flying cars by now, and frequenting other planets. We're not. Human advancement doesn't happen on your schedule. There is no schedule. There is no way of knowing what the world will be like tommorow; yet you've managed to figure out what we'll all be doing 500 years from now?
In conclusion, you're a geek. GEEK! GEEEEK! Move out your parent's basement; for God's sake, your thirty-five! Get a girlfriend, man! Hit the gym, buy some acne cream.
GEEEK!
-Steve
Steve5805@yahoo.com
I hope I get some spam.
Steve,
What makes you think I think the science in Star Trek resembles what the future will be like? It doesn't. But Star Trek is not as bad as Firefly when it comes to science.
Yes, I have the arrogance to correct Whedon. He's really good at fantasy and I quite like him at fantasy. But he has flopped so far in science fiction. He is working on subject matter he couldn't bother to take the time to learn enough about to be even slightly realistic.
The growth of the characters on Firefly: It didn't have enough episodes made for it to show much in the way of character development. But what character development there was in Firefly was poor and most of the characters were uninteresting.
The most interesting character development in the last 10 years of television science fiction was in Farscape. Though Babylon 5 had some excellent character development in some of its characters as well.
I don't know what we will be doing 500 years from now. But I know that humans colonizing some distant planet will not live like they are in 19th century America. That idea is absurd.
Oh, and I'm a few thousand miles away from my parents and haven't lived with them for decades.
Posted by: Randall Parker on April 2, 2004 11:12 PMYou said: "I don't know what we will be doing 500 years from now. But I know that humans colonizing some distant planet will not live like they are in 19th century America. That idea is absurd. "
Well, which is it? Either you don't know what we will be doing 500 years from now, or you do know, and the show is absurdly inaccurate.
As far as the nineteenth-century lifestyle - why not? Today, we have high-speed computers, the internet, and cell-phones; we're developing hydrogen-powered cars, and planning expiditions to Mars; yet take a trip to parts of Africa, and you'll find dirt roads and mules. In the future, no one will be poor? I disagree.
No charactor development? In fact, there is a great deal. Subtle things, mostly; the way Simon begins dressing and acting more like the rest of the crew; the friendship between Jayne and Book. My favorite aspect is the relationship between Simon and Kaylee.
Look, arguing about what will happen 500 years from now is pointless - as I'm sure you'll agree. Likewise, stating that a man's view of the future is "wrong" is equally flawed. You admit that you don't know what will happen, yet scoff at Whedon's vision for being incorrect. Not very logical, as your beloved Vulcans would say.
GEEEK!
-Steve
19th century technology colonies wouldn't be so implausable. If the colony has no infrastructure, they can't support high technology without outside help. Normal people might not be able to afford high tech stuff if they're poor or just got dumped on the colony.
Genetic engeenering might not have been developed or is only limited to higher classes or military. Perhaps people have a religous, legal, or social reasons not to undergo genetic engeering. Or genetic engeenering is still limited science. Society affects science and technology. If people don't like it or are not interested, the science dosn't get developed or proogresses at a slower rate. If it's still experimental, few would try it. If a society suffered from collapse, science can go backwards. If the technology is too resource intensive or limited, then supply and demand go into affect, and only the elite can get it for themselves.
There will still be old people in the future, espeically on a poor colony world with little or no luxeries who apprently can't even afford medicine, let alone anti-aging treatments (if any).
Posted by: Gatomon41 on May 9, 2006 12:55 PM