My overall comment on the story: I'd prefer see some detective story that didn't involve showing just the upper or lower half of a dead body that had been hacked in half. Hey, maybe that's just me. Maybe lots of other people love this sort of thing. Maybe it boosts ratings. I don't know. Still, since I don't expect every episode to show these kinds of visuals I watched it for the story in spite of gruesomeness.
Right after this episode I watched Monk prove that the widow killed her rich husband right after an S.F. earthquake. I gotta say that the absense of hacked up body pieces and the way Monk slipped into gibberish made it a more pleasant experience than the John Doe episode. Still, the John Doe episode was worth watching in spite of the visuals.
Starting from the start: Why's Doe seeing a psychotherapist? Does she not know that he can't remember his past? She's asking him questions about his past. She's asking so many questions that she must know he can't remember. Okay, he's hypnotized. She does know about the amnesia. We learn that his past memory (if he even should have past memory - if he hasn't been cloned perhaps) doesn't work any better when he's hypnotized.
Shrink: "How do you know so much about psychotherapy?"
Doe: "I know so much about everything but me."
The comment he made about women being turned off by his weird mark on his skin doesn't ring true. A rich good looking guy is going to be a babe magnet, weird skin mark or not. Besides, he could afford to have it removed.
Why would Xanax be appropriate? Its not like Doe seems to be suffering serious anxiety. Upset about his past? Yes, but he's handling it fairly well all things considered.
But why this way? A bum wakes up and there is the lower half of a body in a dress lying next to him. Oh great.
A guy's blood was found on the victim (or what it on a knife nearby?). But the guy who matches the DNA is named Dan and he was in the lock-up of a mental hospital when the victim was killed. How?
Possibilities: He has a twin. His blood was taken from him to confuse the investigation. Dan cut himself with a knife and that knife was taken to kill the victim.
The Indian-looking girl in the Police Dept obviously has a crush on him and this seems totally appropriate. Her brains make her his type. Will he ever notice? Will the girl just show up in every episode pining for him with meaningful looks that noone else notices?
Repressed memories? Oh, come on. Why would John Doe need to ask the Dr Jansen what methods he uses? Doe ought to know already.
19.8% of twins are left-handed vs 9% for non-twins? Get out of here. Is that true?
Okay, adopted babies: would the social services agency have saved the records somewhere.
The twins are Daniel and Chistopher (nee Beauregard).
Chris is dead Polly tells them. Polly seems weird.
Doe figures out that Polly is Chris after a sex change. Well, Polly is as nutty as Dan. It must be genetic.
The dating service bar set-up done by Karen. Okay, why not? Still, seems like a rush to be trying to address his romantic needs so quickly. He has weird conversations with the 5 minute dates. He can't talk about his past.
Implausibility Alert: "Where did you grow up?" "Twin Falls Idaho." The girl he was having the 5 minute interview with also was from there. The odds are too slim for this.
John Doe: I have no personality.
But he does have a personality. Personality does not depend on having a past.
The mental hospital has this doctor who does stuff with dredging up memories to treat emotional problems. Doe finally admits his condition to the Doctor.
Doe: "I have retrograde amnesia"
Doctor offers him a trip into a sensory deprivation chamber. Well, I did that a few times. I don't see how that will make memories come back.
Implausibility Alert: Problem with the sensory deprivation chamber: Doe is shown laying way too deep in the
water. Normally the water is so high in salinity that a person doesn't sink that far into it. I think that is partly for safety to reduce the risk of drowning.
Implausibility Alert: Why would it be impossible to get yourself our of an isolation tank? Seems for safety reasons that wouldn't be done.
Implausibility Alert: Also, how could a camera film you in the isolation tank with light on? The idea of an isolation tank is that the person in it receives very few sensations?
Why did Dr Matthew Jansen leave Doe in the isolation tank and then split? Doe was in there for 2 hours. Why did he take Doe's tape? Is he doing something related to a Doe memory that Doe shouted out?
The two victims worked for a social services department and made the decisions that split up twins for adoption. We learn there was a third panel member who made the decisions who must be in danger.
Miss North works for Dr Jansen: She part of the plot? Odd look when Doe told her the third potential victim is in the Southeast Basin of some park area. Plus, what about her hand? The fingernail is missing? The same seemed be the the case with Dan. The hands flashed by so quickly that it was hard to catch that.
Doe puts it all together: Miss North is the mother of the separated twins and she's in a murderous rage about how they were split up for adoption. She and the twins share a genetic defect of their hands for fingernails. So Doe could connect the dots. Well, okay. What if they hadn't shared this defect? This seems too contrived.
Miss North must have given her two sons the genes that make them crazy. She's crazy and so are they both.
Implausibility Alert: How could Miss North know which tent out in the middle of nowhere would contain the guy she wanted to kill?
The buying of the paraglider was very cool. Doe's tracking Miss North's fleeing SUV with the hang glider.
Jansen is part of the plot that is watching Doe. That's my hunch.
Doe: "I have this amnesia thing. "
Brunette in bar: "Well, every experience is a new experience then"
Then we cut to Jansen being buried by a couple of white guys in white shirts and ties (so much for my hunch). They get in an SUV with the older white lady from the end of the last episode in the South Asian country. So Jansen was killed and the tape of Doe's isolation chamber experience is in their hands.
Why was there a DNA blood match with mental patient Dan? His mother's DNA would not have been a perfect match with Dan's DNA. After all, she gave only half her DNA to him and his father (whoever he was) gave the other half. The construction of this episode seems sloppy. Or did the mother take a blood sample to put at the crime scene to throw off the police? But why? It would make more sense to use a totally different person's blood as a way to throw off an investigation. The woman worked with a doctor. She probably had access to blood supplies to pull it off.
Posted by Randall Parker at October 09, 2002 12:46 AMDamn, your review of Doe Re: Me is idiotic. What do you mean why he saw a psychotherapist? He thought it would help, which it did sort of in his hypnosis and seeing flashes of possible suppressed memories. Yes, the comment about his blemish is true. I don't suppose you've heard of a nubbin? How seriously anxious must Doe be to take Xanax? He's been freaking out before. No, Doe oughtn't to know what every psychologist's methods are! Doe could've figured out the woman's location in that interview. Doe, not having memories or emotions developed (except for anxiety), /didn't/ have a personality. /How/ doesn't sensory deprivation make memories come back? The camera was in because we needed to see him, stupid! North being the mother was not as unlikely as there was a paraglider conveniently there for Doe to buy, which was more contrived. There was a name on the canteen, stupid. It was not a South Asian country; it was the Middle East! At least your unresolved questions were valid.
Posted by: Autymn on December 7, 2002 03:48 AMAutymn, my responses:
1) Everyone has a personality. One doesn't need to remember one's past in order to have a personality. It is obvious that many personality characteristics are present in a child from a very young age. A lot of personality is genetically coded for. So, yes, he'd have a full personality.
2) Doe experiences many emotions. He's experienced sadness, happiness, relief, and assorted others.
3) He wouldn't know the methods of any particular psychiatrist. But he would know all psychiatric methods that have been taught or published anywhere.
4) No, we didn't need to see him in the sensory deprivation chamber. We just needed to know he was in it. Any camera in the isolation chamber couldn't see anything since it was totally dark. No, the camera wasn't in there for us to see him. It was in there for the doctor. But it would have been totally dark. So the camera would not have worked. Though an infrared camera could have shown his body in the infrared spectrum.
5) I agree that the availability of the paraglider was highly contrived. Still, it was a neat sequence. Though in reality I wouldn't expect the paraglider to be able to catch up with the vehicle.
Posted by: Randall Parker on December 7, 2002 09:30 AM1) How does everyone have a personality? A few have lack of personality or none at all. Take Al Gore in his speeches, for example. In speaking, the person is not expressive and one's pitch, face, neck, and limbs don't reflect the necessary mood in each subject. You're not objecting because of misunderstood semantics, are you? A lack of beliefs is not itself a belief system, meaning that science is not a religion. And a lack of personality is not a personality itself.
2) Of course he has, but they're not in sync with the rest of people. They're disorganised, awkward, and obstructed. He has to /find/ his personality because he doesn't, yet, have one.
3) So what's your problem?
4) He's the main character, so we did need to see him and his actions and reactions. Have you heard of the omniscient voice?
5) Yes, and there was a 50-50 chance that John would've glided in the wrong direction!
Posted by: Autymn on December 7, 2002 07:01 PMAutymn,
1) Yes, everyone really does have a personality. If you administered any of a number of personality typing tests to Al Gore you'd find he has some kind of personality. How a person comes across delivering public speeches is not an indication of a lack of a personality.
As for Doe's personality: He has one that is as clear as day. He shows compassion for instance. A personality can be highly developed and yet not 't manifest in highly emotionally expressive form.
2) Doe makes many moral judgements and seems to have a strongly developed moral sense. He tries to track down bad people and chooses to help people around him when there is nothing in it for him. He does this in spite of any memory of his past. What causes him to do this?
4) Doe in the isolation chamber: We could have seen him do things in his imagination. He could have flashed back on memories he has formed since coming awake on the island. He could have had hallucinations that we could have watched (and we did see some of those). It was not necessary for us to see him lying there in the isolation tank. Since isolation tanks are totally dark inside a regular light camera is useless in one. The writers made a mistake in how they did that.
Posted by: Randall Parker on December 7, 2002 09:24 PM"personality"
2. The totality of qualities and traits, as of character or behavior, that are peculiar to a specific person.
[This needs to be developed. It did not yet apply to Doe. Rattling off facts spontaneously in the first episodes was not a peculiar trait of a person, but of what he had become by external intervention.]
3. The pattern of collective character, behavioral, temperamental, emotional, and mental traits of a person: Though their personalities differed, they got along as friends.
[Maybe after Doe ran into many people and got used to interacting, and after he recalled the preferences of the person of his former life, that he actually exhibited this. But because most of his life is missing, when he is called on to describe himself involving drawing on his past personality and recollection thereof, the gaps in his memory prevent him from exhibiting a personality.]
4. Distinctive qualities of a person, especially those distinguishing personal characteristics that make one socially appealing: won the election more on personality than on capability. See Synonyms at disposition.
[This is relative, and depends on who he's with.]
Why don't you try having an AI, without emotion, take a type test? Random or uncorrelated answers do not make a personality. Do the tests measure intensity of personality? There's a lower threshold where we can say that one has no personality, and that any occasional internal or external emotions are purely accidental.
2) No, as time went by he did recover memories of his past, even though they weren't the discrete, audible or visual voices that're called thoughts. See, you said "developed".
4) Since when were shots of completely-dark scenes ever dark? Writers intentionally add a background light from nowhere so we see the character/s; otherwise, we'd get dead screen. It was not "necessary" storywise, but it was necessary to emphasise that he was /in/ the tank.
Posted by: Autymn on December 9, 2002 01:50 AMDoe had a personality from the very beginning. Consider what he did and what he could have done instead. He didn't know who he was. He could have responded by wandering around aimlessly or by trying to get committed to a mental hospital. Instead he pursued getting money and pursued trying to figure out who he was. It was important to him to find out what his past was. Why was it important? He had to have values that made him feel that it was important. Where'd the values come from? He had way too much motivation from the very first episode. He was stubborn and driven. He also was intensely curious about other things that he didn't immediately have answers to. Well, not all people intensely curious, not by a long shot.
Anything he did with drawings or other things you cite are things that the writers put in there to try to reinforce the idea that he had no past. But the idea that this made his personality into a blank slate is inconsistent with all the actions he took and all the choices he started making from the very beginning.
Dark scenes: Look, how could the the lab's VCR record him in the sensory deprivation tank if the tank was totally sealed off from a source of light?
Posted by: Randall Parker on December 9, 2002 09:24 AMCuriosity and motivation do not require a personality—behaviour, yes, but personality, no. If he had all the public knowledge in the world, why would he remain wandering around or get in a mental hospital? If you keep poking him, and he moves away, it doesn't mean it's part of his personality. He prefers to avoid pain and suffering like any other intelligent, or responsive, organism. (Machinery can be stubborn and driven. Combine Newton's Laws with Murphy's Laws.) Because he knows everything but who he is, his extant faculties tell him that he can improve his conditions by finding out.
Was there a monitor where the doctor could see John? Then it was a special case where recording him was necessary. Sometimes therapy sessions are taped.
Posted by: Autymn on December 9, 2002 03:59 PMAutymn, we can argue all day just what is "personality". The psychologists who come up with testing and classification systems can not state with exactness just what is a personality. But lets look at it from this perspective: do personality characteristics rely on one's memory? Or are they innate? Identical twins that were separated at birth are far more alike in personality than non-identical twins or random pairs of children.
Doe had a personality from the very beginning of the show. It made sense that he did. It is part of human nature to have one. He immediately started making decisions that were characteristic of his personality. A different personality would have made different decisions.
Erasing someone's memory of their past does not erase their personality. In fact, absent memories of one's past one's decisions will be based more on one's personality type since one can't use lessons learned from past experience to guide one toward making choices that go against the tendencies that one's personality would cause one to have.
Posted by: Randall Parker on December 12, 2002 07:56 PM